2019 ATP Madrid SF: Djokovic [1] vs Thiem [5]

Winner


  • Total voters
    67

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
I saw the match, and yes, while Wawrinka didn't play well, Nadal ended very strong. And I am not saying Djokovic cannot win, but you are predicting some kind of decimation 1 and 2 for Nadal here. He isn't playing that bad either, and Djokovic isn't playing that good yet also.
Well, ok, it might not be 6-1 6-2. It might be something like 6-3 6-4 as well. My point is that Djokovic is the BIG favorite. I just don't trust Nadal in this matchup anymore.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
Again, the AO final was on fast hard courts, not on clay.

It's like seeing a crocodile destroying a lion on water and concluding that the crocodile will also destroy the lion on the land.

Fast hard courts ≠ clay.
A big part of this matchup is mental though. And this part of the game doesn't depend on the surface.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Well, ok, it might not be 6-1 6-2. It might be something like 6-3 6-4 as well. My point is that Djokovic is the BIG favorite. I just don't trust Nadal in this matchup anymore.

All because of W 2018?
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Well, ok, it might not be 6-1 6-2. It might be something like 6-3 6-4 as well. My point is that Djokovic is the BIG favorite. I just don't trust Nadal in this matchup anymore.
For you, but not for the majority. Most tennis fans consider it a close match which can go either way. In fact, Nadal is slightly favorite based on his clay resume (but Djokovic is too good to not make it a close match).
 

Tennisgods

Hall of Fame
Is anyone? Thiem was never second best to Nadal on clay as long as Djokovic is in decent/good form. And in BO5 I can only see the gap growing.

Some people got very carried away by Thiem. Today confirmed that one of Djokodal is winning RG. If they both got injured, Thiem has a chance with one or two others. Making him favourite/second favourite was madness.
 

StrongRule

G.O.A.T.
All because of W 2018?
It started from 2011+AO 2012. Nadal did well to come back from this one and win 6 of the next 7 meetings. But after USO 2013 this just stopped being a matchup. It is a domination of one player over the other. I had some hope that the wins in Madrid 2017 and Rome 2018 will help him a bit to get over the mental problems, but Wimbledon 2018 ended my hopes once and for all. I will be really surprised if he ever beats Djokovic again.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
It started from 2011+AO 2012. Nadal did well to come back from this one and win 6 of the next 7 meetings. But after USO 2013 this just stopped being a matchup. It is a domination of one player over the other. I had some hope that the wins in Madrid 2017 and Rome 2018 will help him a bit to get over the mental problems, but Wimbledon 2018 ended my hopes once and for all. I will be really surprised if he ever beats Djokovic again.

On hardcourt it has been one way traffic but on clay, it's just 4-3 Djokovic and that includes 2015. He has not dominated Nadal on clay to the extent that you are implying.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
It started from 2011+AO 2012. Nadal did well to come back from this one and win 6 of the next 7 meetings. But after USO 2013 this just stopped being a matchup. It is a domination of one player over the other. I had some hope that the wins in Madrid 2017 and Rome 2018 will help him a bit to get over the mental problems, but Wimbledon 2018 ended my hopes once and for all. I will be really surprised if he ever beats Djokovic again.

Does saying this and not expecting him to win make it easier to accept his loses for you?
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
What impressed me is the way Djokovic could absorb and redirect Thiem’s pace and spin. Thiem was hoping to hit him off the court the way he did to Fedal in his last two matches with them.

So much for beating all Big 3 guys in a row. Maybe another time.
 

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
And failed to build up on that.
What are you talking about? “Failed” to build up on the Nadal match? He beat Medvedev in straights and made a solid SF run in Madrid.

Nobody said Thiem was a dominant player or an ATG. Stop holding him to unrealistic standards.
The Big 3 are unique talents. We may not see their achievements again in our lifetime.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Shame you are so pessimistic, especially as @NoleFam states that on clay it is very competitive between them and Novak doesn't dominate him there. In fact, Novak hasn't beaten him on clay in three years.

Good point and that could make him a bit nervous. It's not cut and dry for Djokovic in this one.
 
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Deleted member 77403

Guest
On hardcourt it has been one way traffic but on clay, it's just 4-3 Djokovic and that includes 2015. He has not dominated Nadal on clay to the extent that you are implying.

Exactly, I don't think even the craziest Nole fan would think a win over Nadal on clay is a given.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Good point and that could make him a bit nervous. It's not cut and dry for Djokovic in this one.

Exactly the point, you get it. Nadal is not going to be hanging his head, presenting the back of his neck, so Djokovic can severe it with a sword here. He knows that if he is going to make one final stand then this is the ideal place to do it, on his surface in front of his people.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Exactly the point, you get it. Nadal is not going to be hanging his head, presenting the back of his neck, so Djokovic can severe it with a sword here. He knows that if he is going to make one final stand then this is the ideal place to do it, on his surface in front of his people.

Precisely, and I for one wouldn't be surprised if he did just that.
 

World Beater

Hall of Fame
Federer's also 37. Let's see how Novak is doing at 37 before saying anything about Federer.

Federer's been doing this his whole career. :)

if his level is good enough to get to MP, surely its good enough to not squander them at the frequency that he does...

In any case, i was just having a light hearted go at Fed. i don't expect Nole's level to be quite as high as Fed's at 38...
 

Zebrev

Hall of Fame
Djokovic looks ready for big time tennis again. I think RG gettimg nearer is what motivated him to get serious again. He needs to be battle ready by then, because its going to be brutal in paris. This Madrid final will be a hard fought contest!
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
What are you talking about? “Failed” to build up on the Nadal match? He beat Medvedev in straights and made a solid SF run in Madrid.

Nobody said Thiem was a dominant player or an ATG. Stop holding him to unrealistic standards.
The Big 3 are unique talents. We may not see their achievements again in our lifetime.
Sorry for wishing a 25 year old to beat these 30+ year olds. It's a complete blasphemy.

Not like Delpo and Murray were beating a 30+ year old Fed just 7 years ago.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Most tennis fans consider it a close match which can go either way. In fact, Nadal is slightly favorite based on his clay resume (but Djokovic is too good to not make it a close match).

Djokovic will beat Nadal pretty handily tomorrow. Nadal doesn't believe he can beat him anymore, even on clay. Djokovic was in second gear today and brushed aside Thiem fairly easily. Djoker always gets up for Rafa or Fed and ALWAYS brings his A-game against them both since 2011 (barring 2017 lackluster form).
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Sorry for wishing a 25 year old to beat these 30+ year olds. It's a complete blasphemy.

Not like Delpo and Murray were beating a 30+ year old Fed just 7 years ago.

That's fine and all but where was this same attitude yesterday when Federer was on the brink of victory?
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic in 2. Thiem did not play that good against Federer (before the tie-break and third set, where he raised his level).

Well called. The thing is I always thought if Djokovic gets back to his best he will beat Thiem even on clay but he really hasn't been his best recently so thought thiem had a shot. Then again I've not seen any of the matches so far so he could be playing better now
 

Towser83

G.O.A.T.
Disagree. Tennis is not chess, it is a physical sport. Plus, by that reasoning, Nadal will fell more confident of playing on clay.

I would say that the mental aspect allows a player to execute to their ability under pressure or not. But you are quite correct, Djokovic is not favourite vs Nadal on clay at the moment. Back after he beat him at RG i would have said yes possibly, but not now

Over the past 8 years in best of 3 it's been very close but I'd have to give Nadal a significant lead
 

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
You can tell Djokovic knows how important this match is. There was almost no reaction to those time violations. He's zoning in because he knows if he does win this Thiem won't have a prayer of beating him at RG.
Not true at all. First, Thiem has already beaten Nole at RG. The only thing Thiem has to prove at RG is that he can cope with Nadal. 2nd, Madrid's conditions are completely different from RG and last but not least, best of 5 should benefit the player in his prime age-wise. (And I'm saying this as someone who would always root for Nole vs Thiem).
 
You need them but you obviously don't have them :cry::D
Two one time FO champions. The other one is infinitely better
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veroniquem

Bionic Poster
Two one time FO champions. The other one is infinitely better
Of course he is. Clay does not = RG. Clay = RG, MC, Rome and 3rd clay master. There is a reason why one has won all 4 (and 3 out of the 4 multiple times) and the other has won only 2 out of the 4 (and only 1 out of the 4 multiple times). There is also a reason why Djoko is top 10 on clay in winning % (all time) and Fed is not :p
 

TennisFan3

Talk Tennis Guru
Well, ok, it might not be 6-1 6-2. It might be something like 6-3 6-4 as well. My point is that Djokovic is the BIG favorite. I just don't trust Nadal in this matchup anymore.

That is pretty much common sense. All of these posters who feel that Nadal will drub Novak have no understanding of tennis matchups or the mental aspect of the game.
Novak plays more aggressively against Nadal than he does against anyone else. Nadal plays more defensively against Novak than he does against anyone else.
In short: Novak vs Nadal - Rafa plays his worst and Djoko plays his best due to the nature of the matchup. The only time Nadal has beaten a post 2011 Novak is when the Spaniard is at his absolute best.
This is also reflected in their recent lopsided h2h for past several years.

Anything other than a routine straight sets for Djoko over Nadal would be a big surprise IMO given Nadal's decline since the past couple of years. It is also very clear now that Novak is the heavy favorite at RG 2019. Guys like Medvedev/Wawrinka will probably have a better chance to beat Djokovic than Nadal ever will. It's all about matchups.
 
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