StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, ok, it might not be 6-1 6-2. It might be something like 6-3 6-4 as well. My point is that Djokovic is the BIG favorite. I just don't trust Nadal in this matchup anymore.
2019 ATP Madrid SF: Djokovic [1] vs Thiem [5]
- Thread starter Im(moral) Winner
- Start date
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
A big part of this matchup is mental though. And this part of the game doesn't depend on the surface.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Disagree. Tennis is not chess, it is a physical sport. Plus, by that reasoning, Nadal will fell more confident of playing on clay.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
All because of W 2018?
Sport
G.O.A.T.
For you, but not for the majority. Most tennis fans consider it a close match which can go either way. In fact, Nadal is slightly favorite based on his clay resume (but Djokovic is too good to not make it a close match).
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
Some people got very carried away by Thiem. Today confirmed that one of Djokodal is winning RG. If they both got injured, Thiem has a chance with one or two others. Making him favourite/second favourite was madness.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It's clay and it's in Nadal's home country so I doubt it will be as easy peasy as you think.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
It started from 2011+AO 2012. Nadal did well to come back from this one and win 6 of the next 7 meetings. But after USO 2013 this just stopped being a matchup. It is a domination of one player over the other. I had some hope that the wins in Madrid 2017 and Rome 2018 will help him a bit to get over the mental problems, but Wimbledon 2018 ended my hopes once and for all. I will be really surprised if he ever beats Djokovic again.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
On hardcourt it has been one way traffic but on clay, it's just 4-3 Djokovic and that includes 2015. He has not dominated Nadal on clay to the extent that you are implying.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Does saying this and not expecting him to win make it easier to accept his loses for you?
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
What impressed me is the way Djokovic could absorb and redirect Thiem’s pace and spin. Thiem was hoping to hit him off the court the way he did to Fedal in his last two matches with them.
So much for beating all Big 3 guys in a row. Maybe another time.
So much for beating all Big 3 guys in a row. Maybe another time.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
No. I'm just writing my opinion about their matchup, just like you write your opinion.
beard
Legend
Nothing to say in your favor?...OKYeah, sure whatever you say
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Shame you are so pessimistic, especially as @NoleFam states that on clay it is very competitive between them and Novak doesn't dominate him there. In fact, Novak hasn't beaten him on clay in three years.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
What are you talking about? “Failed” to build up on the Nadal match? He beat Medvedev in straights and made a solid SF run in Madrid.
Nobody said Thiem was a dominant player or an ATG. Stop holding him to unrealistic standards.
The Big 3 are unique talents. We may not see their achievements again in our lifetime.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Good point and that could make him a bit nervous. It's not cut and dry for Djokovic in this one.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Exactly, I don't think even the craziest Nole fan would think a win over Nadal on clay is a given.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Exactly the point, you get it. Nadal is not going to be hanging his head, presenting the back of his neck, so Djokovic can severe it with a sword here. He knows that if he is going to make one final stand then this is the ideal place to do it, on his surface in front of his people.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Precisely, and I for one wouldn't be surprised if he did just that.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
You and I both, and I think the majority also.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Of course not because you cannot contest that Djokovic is the player with the most complete resume in tennis history
Enceladus
Legend
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Plenty since Novak is infinitely superior to Fed on clay. Please stop with the inane comparisons
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
So someone in the comments said that Novak with his win today is the 1st player to ever reach 3+ finals in all 14 big events. I don't know if that is true but that is a great accomplishment if it is.
World Beater
Hall of Fame
Federer's been doing this his whole career.
if his level is good enough to get to MP, surely its good enough to not squander them at the frequency that he does...
In any case, i was just having a light hearted go at Fed. i don't expect Nole's level to be quite as high as Fed's at 38...
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Wrong.Plenty since Novak is infinitely superior to Fed on clay. Please stop with the inane comparisons
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
I don't need any other arguments.That's your best argument?
Right all the way!
mike danny
Bionic Poster
That doesn't make him the best.Of course not because you cannot contest that Djokovic is the player with the most complete resume in tennis history
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Sorry for wishing a 25 year old to beat these 30+ year olds. It's a complete blasphemy.
Not like Delpo and Murray were beating a 30+ year old Fed just 7 years ago.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Don't waste your time.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Djokovic will beat Nadal pretty handily tomorrow. Nadal doesn't believe he can beat him anymore, even on clay. Djokovic was in second gear today and brushed aside Thiem fairly easily. Djoker always gets up for Rafa or Fed and ALWAYS brings his A-game against them both since 2011 (barring 2017 lackluster form).
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
That's fine and all but where was this same attitude yesterday when Federer was on the brink of victory?
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Yes because he is the only player with no glaring weakness (on top of being the only one holding all 4 slams at once on grass, hard and clay)
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic is not Fed. He’s still playing at an exceptional level.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
You know what they say about opinions.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Well called. The thing is I always thought if Djokovic gets back to his best he will beat Thiem even on clay but he really hasn't been his best recently so thought thiem had a shot. Then again I've not seen any of the matches so far so he could be playing better now
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well, Thiem was expected to beat Fed, it was his fault for taking this long.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
So was Fed.
The young ones today are not even on Delpo's level, that's the problem.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
I would say that the mental aspect allows a player to execute to their ability under pressure or not. But you are quite correct, Djokovic is not favourite vs Nadal on clay at the moment. Back after he beat him at RG i would have said yes possibly, but not now
Over the past 8 years in best of 3 it's been very close but I'd have to give Nadal a significant lead
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Not true at all. First, Thiem has already beaten Nole at RG. The only thing Thiem has to prove at RG is that he can cope with Nadal. 2nd, Madrid's conditions are completely different from RG and last but not least, best of 5 should benefit the player in his prime age-wise. (And I'm saying this as someone who would always root for Nole vs Thiem).
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Two one time FO champions. The other one is infinitely betterYou need them but you obviously don't have them
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Only player to hold the 4 at once on clay, grass and hard and only player to have the whole master set on top of WTF and the 4 slams.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
Of course he is. Clay does not = RG. Clay = RG, MC, Rome and 3rd clay master. There is a reason why one has won all 4 (and 3 out of the 4 multiple times) and the other has won only 2 out of the 4 (and only 1 out of the 4 multiple times). There is also a reason why Djoko is top 10 on clay in winning % (all time) and Fed is not
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
That is pretty much common sense. All of these posters who feel that Nadal will drub Novak have no understanding of tennis matchups or the mental aspect of the game.
Novak plays more aggressively against Nadal than he does against anyone else. Nadal plays more defensively against Novak than he does against anyone else.
In short: Novak vs Nadal - Rafa plays his worst and Djoko plays his best due to the nature of the matchup. The only time Nadal has beaten a post 2011 Novak is when the Spaniard is at his absolute best.
This is also reflected in their recent lopsided h2h for past several years.
Anything other than a routine straight sets for Djoko over Nadal would be a big surprise IMO given Nadal's decline since the past couple of years. It is also very clear now that Novak is the heavy favorite at RG 2019. Guys like Medvedev/Wawrinka will probably have a better chance to beat Djokovic than Nadal ever will. It's all about matchups.
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