W 04 Roddick and W 15 Djokovic

[The Guru]

So I have to admit I'm getting pretty frustrated with the way people talk about Djokovic's level at Wimbledon and how it's proof that he's not all that good there because Federer pushed him at an advanced age. His grass peak has been brought down to a Murray level in a recent thread and people generally just crap all over Djokovic's level in general especially on grass. I just want to see how far this extends. In the 2004 Wimbledon final Federer beat peak Roddick in 4 sets and in the 2015 W final he lost to peak Djokovic in 4 sets. It's generally said that 2004 W Grass was faster "transition grass" whereas 2015 was slower "green clay" grass. With all that in mind let's look at some stats.

Andy Roddick 04 vs Djokovic 15
BPs created: 14 vs 10
BPs won: 4 vs 4
Return points won: 36.4% vs 34%
Returns in play: 68.2 % vs 66.7%

So from this data we are forced to accept one of two things. 1st: Andy Roddick was a far superior returner to Novak Djokovic and he backed up his return with better baseline play than Peak Djokovic. So much so that he put up better numbers on return against a far better Federer on a much faster court. 2nd: Federer played better service games in 2015 than he did in 2004.

So I ask all of you. Is it that Peak Andy Roddick was a better returner and baseliner (Novak won a much higher percentage at net so it can't be that either) than Peak Grassovic or did Fed improve his service games from 2004 to 2015?

Edit: Roddick is also a better returner/baseliner than peak Wimbledon Murray too apparently. From the 2012 W Final:

Murray return stats:

BPs created: 7
BPs won: 2
Return points won: 32.8%

 

[travlerajm]

I'll take 2004 Roddick on grass over 2015 Djokovic. Sorry, but it's really not that close.

 

[The Guru]

I'll take 2004 Roddick on grass over 2015 Djokovic. Sorry, but it's really not that close.

Not what I asked. Is Peak Roddick a better returner and baseliner than Peak Djokovic?

 

[travlerajm]

Not what I asked. Is Peak Roddick a better returner and baseliner than Peak Djokovic?

I didn't respond in the poll because neither option is true.

 

[NoleFam]

Roddick was excellent in 2004 and I'm one of his biggest defenders as far as the level of play he brought to the court that day. 2015 Djokovic was also excellent as we already know. Roddick, over his grass career, is not even in the same stratosphere as far as returning on grass as Djokovic though, so even if you didn't realize that Federer vastly improved his serve after 2004, this would spell it out pretty clearly.

 

[PerilousPear]

people generally just crap all over Djokovic's level in general especially on grass.

I mean, it's not unwarranted. He's the only ATG to lose a slam final to Mury… twice

 

[The Guru]

I didn't respond in the poll because neither option is true.

How is that possible? Explain how Roddick won more return points and put more returns in play while playing on a faster court against a better Federer then. He lost a way higher percentage of points at net. What's the explanation? The courts were faster in 2015? Enlighten me.

 

[Sysyphus]

Bit silly framing.

It's perfectly possible that Roddick has played single matches where he was more effective in return games than Novak in a single match. Doesn't have follow that we must think Roddick 'is a much better returner' full stop.

 

[The Guru]

Roddick was excellent in 2004 and I'm one of his biggest defenders as far as the level of play he brought to the court that day. 2015 Djokovic was also excellent as we already know. Roddick, over his grass career, is not even in the same stratosphere as far as returning on grass as Djokovic though, so even if you didn't realize that Federer vastly improved his serve after 2004, this would spell it out pretty clearly.

Preach. I agree completely. I'm a massive defender of 04 Roddick against the weak era critics because he was a beast in that match but I'm also incredibly fed up with the trashing Old Fed and Peak Djok get on grass.

 

[Red Rick]

So I have to admit I'm getting pretty frustrated with the way people talk about Djokovic's level at Wimbledon and how it's proof that he's not all that good there because Federer pushed him at an advanced age. His grass peak has been brought down to a Murray level in a recent thread and people generally just crap all over Djokovic's level in general especially on grass. I just want to see how far this extends. In the 2004 Wimbledon final Federer beat peak Roddick in 4 sets and in the 2015 W final he lost to peak Djokovic in 4 sets. It's generally said that 2004 W Grass was faster "transition grass" whereas 2015 was slower "green clay" grass. With all that in mind let's look at some stats.

Andy Roddick 04 vs Djokovic 15
BPs created: 14 vs 10
BPs won: 4 vs 4
Return points won: 36.4% vs 34%
Returns in play: 68.2 % vs 66.7%

So from this data we are forced to accept one of two things. 1st: Andy Roddick was a far superior returner to Novak Djokovic and he backed up his return with better baseline play than Peak Djokovic. So much so that he put up better numbers on return against a far better Federer on a much faster court. 2nd: Federer played better service games in 2015 than he did in 2004.

So I ask all of you. Is it that Peak Andy Roddick was a better returner and baseliner (Novak won a much higher percentage at net so it can't be that either) than Peak Grassovic or did Fed improve his service games from 2004 to 2015?

2004 final was one of very few days Roddick had a decent returning performance against Federer. I think Fed didn't serve great in 2004, and he was all around a much more consistently dominant server in 2015.

 

[Nadal_Django]

So I have to admit I'm getting pretty frustrated with the way people talk about Djokovic's level at Wimbledon and how it's proof that he's not all that good there because Federer pushed him at an advanced age. His grass peak has been brought down to a Murray level in a recent thread and people generally just crap all over Djokovic's level in general especially on grass. I just want to see how far this extends. In the 2004 Wimbledon final Federer beat peak Roddick in 4 sets and in the 2015 W final he lost to peak Djokovic in 4 sets. It's generally said that 2004 W Grass was faster "transition grass" whereas 2015 was slower "green clay" grass. With all that in mind let's look at some stats.

Andy Roddick 04 vs Djokovic 15
BPs created: 14 vs 10
BPs won: 4 vs 4
Return points won: 36.4% vs 34%
Returns in play: 68.2 % vs 66.7%

So from this data we are forced to accept one of two things. 1st: Andy Roddick was a far superior returner to Novak Djokovic and he backed up his return with better baseline play than Peak Djokovic. So much so that he put up a better numbers on return against a far better Federer on a much faster court. 2nd: Federer played better service games in 2015 than he did in 2004.

So I ask all of you. Is it that Peak Andy Roddick was a better returner and baseliner (Novak won a higher percentage at net so it can't be that either) than Peak Grassovic or did Fed improve his service games from 2004 to 2015?

Federer have improved his serve massively over the years. Just watch the 2 videos from 2004 and 2015 back to back and is easily noticeable. The difference in his serving is quite striking.

As for the frustration part, just relax, you're arguing with religious fanatics. Don't take them too seriously.

 

[Sysyphus]

Also hardly anyone denies that fed's serve in itself has often been at its best in more recent years.

People are more critical of his development outside of the serve.

 

[travlerajm]

How is that possible? Explain how Roddick won more return points and put more returns in play while playing on a faster court against a better Federer then. He lost a way higher percentage of points at net. What's the explanation? The courts were faster in 2015? Enlighten me.

Simple. Andy was Roger's pigeon, so he could coast most service points, play freer and more carelessly until it gets to a break point and not worry about getting broken.

Novak, he'd played like 40 times already. He'd had plenty of time to analyze what serve patterns work against his primary rival, and knows he has to maintain focus on service games in order to have a chance to win.

 

[The Guru]

Bit silly framing.

It's perfectly possible that Roddick has played single matches where he was more effective in return games than Novak in a single match. Doesn't have follow that we must think Roddick 'is a much better returner' full stop.

Stop trying to misinterpret what I'm saying. I never said that he's a better returner full stop. At his best he's a better returner and baseliner than Novak Djokovic. Do we not agree that Peak Roddick on grass is 04 and Peak Djok on grass is 15? So peak for peak is Roddick a better returner and baseliner than Djokovic. This is about as straightforward as it gets.

 

[NoleFam]

How is that possible? Explain how Roddick won more return points and put more returns in play while playing on a faster court against a better Federer then. He lost a way higher percentage of points at net. What's the explanation? The courts were faster in 2015? Enlighten me.

I didn't realize Roddick was so terrible at net that day until you brought it up and I checked. He was 21/44 (48%) which is quite bad but he really wasn't a strong volleyer. He made up for it that year by being extremely good off the ground, probably the best he has ever been. But yea, that net percentage probably decided the outcome of the match when you think about it.

 

[Red Rick]

Fun fact.

It took Roddick until 2012 to figure out he would always move to his left a fraction too early on 2nd serve return vs Fed

 

[NoleFam]

Preach. I agree completely. I'm a massive defender of 04 Roddick against the weak era critics because he was a beast in that much but I'm also incredibly fed up with the trashing Old Fed and Peak Djok get on grass.

Federer's serve improved and his baseline game declined since 2004. He also became a better volleyer by 2015.

 

[Red Rick]

Stop trying to misinterpret what I'm saying. I never said that he's a better returner full stop. At his best he's a better returner and baseliner than Novak Djokovic. Do we not agree that Peak Roddick on grass is 04 and Peak Djok on grass is 15? So peak for peak is Roddick a better returner and baseliner than Djokovic. This is about as straightforward as it gets.

I believe that by the same logic we must conclude Djokovic is a better server than Roddick.

Look, I'm one of Roddick's biggest defenders on here, and I think he was very inconsistent on return which dragged his stats down. But there is no way this means Roddick's best returning is in the same stratosphere as Djokovic's.

 

[Sysyphus]

Stop trying to misinterpret what I'm saying. I never said that he's a better returner full stop. At his best he's a better returner and baseliner than Novak Djokovic. Do we not agree that Peak Roddick on grass is 04 and Peak Djok on grass is 15? So peak for peak is Roddick a better returner and baseliner than Djokovic. This is about as straightforward as it gets.

Still a silly framing.

We are talking about one match for each player, not their entire peaks. Two different things.

Should I cherry-pick two matches where Djokovic has a higher ace% than Roddick and ask whether we are ready to accept that peak Djokovic serves bigger too?

 

[The Guru]

Federer's serve improved and his baseline game declined since 2004. He also became a better volleyer by 2015.

Once again agreed. However it's also a bit more than that. Fed fans can concede his serve got better while trashing every other part of his game but he also backs up his improved serve well enough that his service games in general improved. His drop off on return and defending from the back outweighs that improvement of course but he was still a great player in 2015.

 

[The Guru]

I believe that by the same logic we must conclude Djokovic is a better server than Roddick.

Look, I'm one of Roddick's biggest defenders on here, and I think he was very inconsistent on return which dragged his stats down. But there is no way this means Roddick's best returning is in the same stratosphere as Djokovic's.

That's actually not true. We can also say Federer was a far worse returner and defender in 2015 which is what explains that. You see in each case you must accept one or the other. It can also be said that Djokovic backs up his serve far better than Roddick which can be seen in the stats and I think is pretty clearly true.

 

[The Guru]

Still a silly framing.

We are talking about one match for each player, not their entire peaks. Two different things.

Should I cherry-pick two matches where Djokovic has a higher ace% than Roddick and ask whether we are ready to accept that peak Djokovic serves bigger too?

How exactly is this cherry picked? It's their two best Wimbledon final performances against the same player. So are you saying Roddick returned and played better baseline tennis in this match than Djokovic did in 2015? Because even if it's just this match you still must assert that or Federer played better service games in 2015.

 

[junior74]

It's a shame The Global Evolving Express left Roddick on the plattform.

 

[travlerajm]

One could also conclude that Novak 2015 returned much better than Andy 2004 because his break point conversion % was 100% vs 28%.

 

[Red Rick]

Still a silly framing.

We are talking about one match for each player, not their entire peaks. Two different things.

Should I cherry-pick two matches where Djokovic has a higher ace% than Roddick and ask whether we are ready to accept that peak Djokovic serves bigger too?

From the top of my mind Djoko's highest ace% was actually vs Roddick at the Olympics.

 

[Lew II]

So I have to admit I'm getting pretty frustrated with the way people talk about Djokovic's level at Wimbledon and how it's proof that he's not all that good there because Federer pushed him at an advanced age. His grass peak has been brought down to a Murray level in a recent thread and people generally just crap all over Djokovic's level in general especially on grass. I just want to see how far this extends. In the 2004 Wimbledon final Federer beat peak Roddick in 4 sets and in the 2015 W final he lost to peak Djokovic in 4 sets. It's generally said that 2004 W Grass was faster "transition grass" whereas 2015 was slower "green clay" grass. With all that in mind let's look at some stats.

Andy Roddick 04 vs Djokovic 15
BPs created: 14 vs 10
BPs won: 4 vs 4
Return points won: 36.4% vs 34%
Returns in play: 68.2 % vs 66.7%

So from this data we are forced to accept one of two things. 1st: Andy Roddick was a far superior returner to Novak Djokovic and he backed up his return with better baseline play than Peak Djokovic. So much so that he put up better numbers on return against a far better Federer on a much faster court. 2nd: Federer played better service games in 2015 than he did in 2004.

So I ask all of you. Is it that Peak Andy Roddick was a better returner and baseliner (Novak won a much higher percentage at net so it can't be that either) than Peak Grassovic or did Fed improve his service games from 2004 to 2015?

Roddick must have been a much superior returner than 2015 Murray too:

BPs created: 14 vs 1
BPs won: 4 vs 0
Return points won: 36.4% vs 23.1%

 

[NoleFam]

Once again agreed. However it's also a bit more than that. Fed fans can concede his serve got better while trashing every other part of his game but he also backs up his improved serve well enough that his service games in general improved. His drop off on return and defending from the back outweighs that improvement of course but he was still a great player in 2015.

He was one of the best returners on grass at his peak but that dropped off. I never felt like he was that great of a defender but he was good enough, but not GOAT level like the other two. His speed and agility fell off, and so his baseline game somewhat suffered. However, he did a great job maximizing his strengths in later years and revamping his game to still bring a high level. Federer played one of his top 5 matches in his Wimbledon career in the SF in 2015. Probably top 3. This is what we know but if you are looking for the majority of his fans here to admit he played well in the 2015 final, then you are not going to get it on this site.

 

[The Guru]

Roddick must have also been a much superior returner than Murray:

BPs created: 14 vs 1
BPs won: 4 vs 0
Return points won: 36.4% vs 23.1%

Thank you will add to OP

 

[Red Rick]

Might want to take those Murray stats from the Olympic final

 

[Nadal_Django]

Roddick must have been a much superior returner than Murray too:

BPs created: 14 vs 1
BPs won: 4 vs 0
Return points won: 36.4% vs 23.1%

Roddick creating 14 BPs Vs anyone!? Tells you a lot about Federer's level as well.
The same 2004 Federer who in hypothetical match is supposed to smoke the best version of grass Djokovic in 3 easy sets.

 

[The Guru]

He was one of the best returners on grass at his peak but that dropped off. I never felt like he was that great of a defender but he was good enough, but not GOAT level like the other two. His speed and agility fell off, and so his baseline game somewhat suffered. However, he did a great job maximizing his strengths in later years and revamping his game to still bring a high level. Federer played one of his top 5 matches in his Wimbledon career in the SF in 2015. Probably top 3. This is what we know but if you are looking for the majority of his fans here to admit he played well in the 2015 final, then you are not going to get it on this site.

Well I actually think Peak Federer won in a very similar way to Peak Djokovic. He was extremely consistent and bossed points without taking risks. There are some differences obviously as Federer was more FH heavy and Djokovic more balanced but generally speaking their win condition/game plan was pretty similar. The aggressive shotmaker Federer that people associate with him is much more closely correlated to older Fed than Peak Fed. He actually defended and passed at an elite level while having great consistency off the ground when he was at his best. Agree on your analysis of how his game changed through the years though.

 

[Lew II]

Edit: Roddick is also a better returner/baseliner than peak Wimbledon Murray too apparently. From the 2012 W Final:

Murray return stats:

BPs created: 7
BPs won: 2
Return points won: 32.8%

Why 2012 Murray instead of 2015?

2012 Federer doesn't get belittled as much as 2015.

 

[The Guru]

Why 2012 Murray instead of 2015?

2012 Federer doesn't get belittled as much as 2015.

Well I wanted it to be peak Murray. 2015 Murray isn't peak Murray (imo) so it wouldn't carry as much weight. It also breaks the parallelism of it being W finals only. I understand where you coming from though and you're right that 15 Fed gets belittled much more but I wanted to keep it true to my opinions and my opinion is 2012 Murray is peak Murray on grass/hard.

 

[travlerajm]

I'm not a fan of anyone in particular. But I'm starting to feel sorry for Djokovic fans.

Such strong feelings of disrespect in this weak era that they must argue that an over-the-hill ex-great in his mid 30's is serving better than in his prime.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

So I have to admit I'm getting pretty frustrated with the way people talk about Djokovic's level at Wimbledon and how it's proof that he's not all that good there because Federer pushed him at an advanced age. His grass peak has been brought down to a Murray level in a recent thread and people generally just crap all over Djokovic's level in general especially on grass. I just want to see how far this extends. In the 2004 Wimbledon final Federer beat peak Roddick in 4 sets and in the 2015 W final he lost to peak Djokovic in 4 sets. It's generally said that 2004 W Grass was faster "transition grass" whereas 2015 was slower "green clay" grass. With all that in mind let's look at some stats.

Andy Roddick 04 vs Djokovic 15
BPs created: 14 vs 10
BPs won: 4 vs 4
Return points won: 36.4% vs 34%
Returns in play: 68.2 % vs 66.7%

So from this data we are forced to accept one of two things. 1st: Andy Roddick was a far superior returner to Novak Djokovic and he backed up his return with better baseline play than Peak Djokovic. So much so that he put up better numbers on return against a far better Federer on a much faster court. 2nd: Federer played better service games in 2015 than he did in 2004.

So I ask all of you. Is it that Peak Andy Roddick was a better returner and baseliner (Novak won a much higher percentage at net so it can't be that either) than Peak Grassovic or did Fed improve his service games from 2004 to 2015?

Edit: Roddick is also a better returner/baseliner than peak Wimbledon Murray too apparently. From the 2012 W Final:

Murray return stats:

BPs created: 7
BPs won: 2
Return points won: 32.8%

There is NO doubt that Fed’s serve has gotten significantly better over the years.
If Fed’s serve in 2017 were what he had in 2004, he wouldn’t have won two slams. He might not even have been in the top 10.
Basically, Fed’s improvements on the serve and BH have made him an elite player at an age where most guys would have been washed up.

Rather than being an agenda, this is a fact. It’s testament to Fed’s pure greatness as an athlete to improve key aspects of his game despite the challenges of aging.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Roddick must have been a much superior returner than 2015 Murray too:

BPs created: 14 vs 1
BPs won: 4 vs 0
Return points won: 36.4% vs 23.1%

Confirmed: Roddick GOAT return and GOAT serve.
This guy needs to get back on tour and clean up in this weakest of eras. Maybe he can chase down the slam record yet!

 

[NoleFam]

Well I actually think Peak Federer won in a very similar way to Peak Djokovic. He was extremely consistent and bossed points without taking risks. There are some differences obviously as Federer was more FH heavy and Djokovic more balanced but generally speaking their win condition/game plan was pretty similar. The aggressive shotmaker Federer that people associate with him is much more closely correlated to older Fed than Peak Fed. He actually defended and passed at an elite level while having great consistency off the ground when he was at his best. Agree on your analysis of how his game changed through the years though.

Good points. I would touch on part though about Federer taking risks at Wimbledon. I think he took risks but only necessary risks. I think grass is the one surface where calculated risks are necessary. I do get what you're saying though. Federer, like Djokovic has done there at his peak, smothered his opponents with a heavy, deep rally ball until he got an opening and then he striked. He definitely was more baseline oriented back then so yea he did defend quite a bit. I think he was really good at defending, but I just feel the other two were better at it and especially reversing that defense back to offense.

 

[The Guru]

I'm not a fan of anyone in particular. But I'm starting to feel sorry for Djokovic fans.

Such strong feelings of disrespect in this weak era that they must argue that an over-the-hill ex-great in his mid 30's is serving better than in his prime.

*Says a 5 time W champ at his peak is "not close" to as good as a 0 time W champ at his peak*
*Criticizes other peoples analytical skills*

Nice.

 

[Nadal_Django]

Watching again the extended highlights of the Federer - Roddick match from 2004. All I can say is that the nostalgia is really a stupid and bad thing sometimes. Give me the 2019 Federer over that lazy, passive, BH shanking, baseline camping, powder serving 2004 Federer anyday, anytime.

Edit: The surface speed looks exactly the same as in any edition in the 10s as well.

 

[ForehandCross]

Eh simple,
1. Federer's serve was not as good then.
2. Roddick was simply hitting too big too consistently for anyone to handle. This was Roddick having his Rosol moment.

Djokovic smothered Federer slowly in rallies, Roddick didn't even let Federer breath to start with. This isn't a question of who is the better player, it's about a very good power hitter grass courter having the best match of his life.
You can't play against someone who is hitting it like baseball on every ball and every ball is going in. The rain broke Roddick's rhythm, otherwise Federer was in for a serious trouble,even a loss.

 

[ForehandCross]

Watching again the extended highlights of the Federer - Roddick match from 2004. All I can say is that the nostalgia is really a stupid and bad thing sometimes. Give me the 2019 Federer over that lazy, passive, BH shanking, baseline camping, powder serving 2004 Federer anyday, anytime.

Edit: The surface speed looks exactly the same as in any edition in the 10s as well.

You watching the same highlight as me friend? Please tell me where you see that lazy, passive, BH shanking, baseline camping, powder serving 2004 Federer and how that doesn't have something to do with Roddick.
Cause in the one I was watching ,I see a man taking such huge cuts and serving so big that it's uncontainable.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Fred shouldn't have let Roddick back into the second set, lazy stuff from him there. The first and third sets featured some of Andy's best ever tennis, I dare say he did match Peakovic's grass level for a while. Djokovic was strongly better in the fourth set, of course. Peak Djokovic wins because he's better consistently. Had Roddick proved able to maintain his first set level throughout the match, he could've actually beaten Federer, let alone Djokovic. But that was not the case, so he loses.

 

[Nadal_Django]

You watching the same highlight as me friend? Please tell me where you see that lazy, passive, BH shanking, baseline camping, powder serving 2004 Federer and how that doesn't have something to do with Roddick.
Cause in the one I was watching ,I see a man taking such huge cuts and serving so big that it's uncontainable.

Yep. You don't say that this version of Federer have a prayer against the 2019 Federer? Let alone Djokovic.

 

[Red Rick]

You watching the same highlight as me friend? Please tell me where you see that lazy, passive, BH shanking, baseline camping, powder serving 2004 Federer and how that doesn't have something to do with Roddick.
Cause in the one I was watching ,I see a man taking such huge cuts and serving so big that it's uncontainable.

Spoiler

WHY DO I FIND FRAUD HITTING A NET CORD AT THE MOST CRUCIAL MOMENT JESUS GOD ****ING DAMNIT I WAS JUST HAVING AN OKAY MORNING

 

[ForehandCross]

LOL after first few mistakes, When Roddick's balls start to go in, the commentators start to have fun:

"The amount of power that is running through roddick, you can run a small town from it"
"Roddick's second serve is faster than Federer's first serve which itself is at good speed, Tells you all about Roddick's power"

Yep. You don't say that this version of Federer have a prayer against the 2019 Federer? Let alone Djokovic.

I don't know, but I see a man being barely allowed to play at all.

 

[Red Rick]

LOL after first few mistakes, When Roddick's balls start to go in, the commentators start to have fun:

"The amount of power that is running through roddick, you can run a small town from it"
"Roddick's second serve is faster than Federer's first serve which itself is at good speed, Tells you all about Roddick's power"



I don't know, but I see a man being barely allowed to play at all.

That smash from the back of the court

"141mph... prime US beef."

 

[Lew II]

Well I wanted it to be peak Murray. 2015 Murray isn't peak Murray (imo) so it wouldn't carry as much weight. It also breaks the parallelism of it being W finals only. I understand where you coming from though and you're right that 15 Fed gets belittled much more but I wanted to keep it true to my opinions and my opinion is 2012 Murray is peak Murray on grass/hard.

IMO 2015 was peak Murray, he won the Davis Cup going unbeaten, two Masters, two other titles (Queen's, Munich), lost only to Djokovic or Federer in 3 slams and 5 masters, and just few months later had his best season ever.

 

[ForehandCross]

That smash from the back of the court

"141mph... prime US beef."

But in the end you also see a huge difference between Roddick and someon like say Djokovic. Can never see Djokovic ever letting Federer off the hook like he did in second set, Roddick dissapeared for 4 games early in the set,came back with a roar only to lose it. That changed the match more than the rain.

 

[Red Rick]

IMO 2015 was peak Murray, he won the Davis Cup going unbeaten, two Masters, two other titles (Queen's, Munich), lost only to Djokovic or Federer in 3 slams and 5 masters, and just few months later had his best season ever.

Ah 2015. I remember me drunk betting Federer in a match vs Murray while Fed was a significant odds favorite cause it was such easy money. Had to increase the bet cause I wasn't the only one who thought it was lol easy money

 

[Red Rick]

But in the end you also see a huge difference between Roddick and someon like say Djokovic. Can never see Djokovic ever letting Federer off the hook like he did in second set, Roddick dissapeared for 4 games early in the set, That changed the match more than the rain.

Yeah Roddick didn't have the mentality to deal with Fed. And in turn it made Federer ridiculously confident vs Roddick. Roddick said the 2003 USO was the only Slam he ever played where he felt like he was a favorite. It's also the only Slam where he was really clutch every day.

I'd argue Roddickw as clutch at Wimbly 2009 apart from one tiebreak cause you don't go unbroken for 37 games and making it to 14-14 in the 5th with a 0.75 DR without being really clutch.