2018 ATP Finals Final: (1.) Novak Djokovic vs. (3.) Alexander Zverev
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Meles
Bionic Poster
The reality is if Zverev combines his first serve from Madrid 2018 with his 2nd serve game from Rome 2017 and Rogers Cup 2017 he may be unbreakable. The first serve was pretty solid against Federe so its not unprecedented for Zverev to find another gear in a final (in fact its expected.
) The problem for Zverev is the aggressive 2nd serving from 2017 has not shown up for the party at all. He did up his velocity with Fed, but still not close to what he did to him in Rogers Cup 2017 with a 182 kph AVERAGE 2nd serve (113 mph). Don't expect this kind of crazy aggressive 2nd serving with a lot of 2nd serves over 120 mph, but it is possible because Zedbot has done it before.If Zverev is playing well on serve will that get a slip up from Novak? It could very easily. Djoko has great precision this year on first serve, but he's not hitting with a ton of velocity. A hot returning Zverev has the reach to sneak a break.
This match will be about serve and return leading towards baseline domination for one of the players. Djokovic excels at this, but Zverev dismantled him by one upping him in the 2017 Rome final. It all depends on serve/return.
The problem for Zverev is he's not had the necessary 2nd serve game this year to pull off this upset so that stats are completely against him. Djoko 90%, Zverev 10% chance of winning. Djokovic in solid 2 set performance like 6-3, 6-3 (two breaks in one of the sets).
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
I'm not sure tall guys are super capped by definition. I just think they have an easier time getting somewhere when they have a more limited skillset.
A lot depends on specific morphology at a certain height, and taller players having longer limbs will always be at a slight disadvantage in clean hitting, but I'm not sure being 198 means you're as capped as you say.
The biggest thing that stands out for me is that tall players have more reach, and therefor they actually also should have some advantage from that in returning serve. There's definitely a few good movers in the 190cm range.
The tallest players are a much smaller population and talent pool. Still they're very overrepresented.
CYGS
Legend
Hope it bores you to death.
Meles
Bionic Poster
But its not; these are the same fasterer courts that started in 2016 where Djoko was decisively beaten by Murray in the final. These courts still look to his liking this year, but its not his court anymore.
CYGS
Legend
Djokovic to win the WTF without dropping a set and/or serve once.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Yup. Instead of losing 6-4, 6-1, he'll lose 6-1, 6-4.
CYGS
Legend
Here to jinx Djokovic? Unjinxed.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Spot on - the third problem is that if he tries to attack the net as much as he did vs. Fed, Novak will have the movement and passing shots to make him look foolish. Yeah - short of Z serving 80 % first serves and finding some magic in a TB or a return game or 2, it's hard to see him get close to winning this.
And the fourth problem is that he can't just rally with Novak, cause he'll err quicker or be outmaneuvered (forgive the spelling)
T
Tiki-Taka
Guest
Got to back Djokovic after what I have seen from him this week. Fine with either result, hope we have a good conclusion of the tournament and the season.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Don't start a war with me, cupcake.
albertobra
Hall of Fame
Zvev's mental.attitude today was remarkable. Probably Lendl's work is beginning to show results. Zvev was calm throughout the match. And this doesn't happen often to him. Even in oncourt Interview he showed maturity in an adverse situation.
But on the other side there is a machine.....
I hope Zvev's serve doesn't shy. Ultron has this power. You know that If you don't make a perfect serve you'll get that ball back into your feet. And that is a lot of pressure for who is serving.
But that ain't really the main problem. Djoko is now really serving well. It's hard to figure how will Zvev break Djoko.
But on the other side there is a machine.....
I hope Zvev's serve doesn't shy. Ultron has this power. You know that If you don't make a perfect serve you'll get that ball back into your feet. And that is a lot of pressure for who is serving.
But that ain't really the main problem. Djoko is now really serving well. It's hard to figure how will Zvev break Djoko.
Meles
Bionic Poster
duaneeo
Legend
Dude, Djokovic won only 7 games against Federer in the 2015 RR, but then lost only 7 games against him a couple days later in the final.
lud
Hall of Fame
Bet you on Djoko.9
metsman
G.O.A.T.
taller also means longer limbs and larger swings, which is a big disadvantage on the serve and it also makes them easier to jam. Tall people are over represented today probably because not too many low 6 foot athletic talents play tennis or are coached properly and don't have a natural advantage like the serve to overcome that, or else all these tall guys would probably move back 3-5 ranking spots. Historically tall players are probably represented fairly and in the ATG spectrum, not at all because like I said they are capped from achieving beyond a certain level because of their movement and ability to hit the ball cleanly when they are stretched. Even the tall players that have the talent to achieve a lot (Safin, delpo, Stich, Scud) are often derailed due to injuries, which is another big factor for them.
CYGS
Legend
What's wrong with hoping what you wish for?
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Most obvious Lendl Coaching difference is that Sasha is going for his 1st serve more, consistently in 130's to 140's. and he is coming to the net like Nishikori did against Federer with much success. This is all Lendl right there.
D
Deleted member 763024
Guest
Anyone other than Novak fans planning on watching the beatdown tomorrow? I wish I could but got sunday things to do.
Nole playing flawlessly, so I don’t expect there will be any drama at all.
Nole playing flawlessly, so I don’t expect there will be any drama at all.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
So glad I didn't watch any of this mess
There's only one problem with that. Zverev isn't an ATG so shouldn't be counted on to do the ATG things that Fed,Nadal and Djokovic have done on a regular basis
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Federer was 2 years older by the time the final rolled around though so no wonder he declined that much. Zverev is still only 18 so he is very spry and hungry.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
This seems right.
Definitely agree with this.
I don't agree with this at all. The ceiling of most players is capped, period, because most players don't have it in them to develop into ATGs. But I'd also say that something can't be possible in the minds of most people until it happens. I think Z's biggest liability is not his height but rather holes in his game that I don't believe he can fill. I'm not quite on the @Meles Diamond Age train, but I think some big wins by more and more young or younger players are right around the corner. Right now I see one and one player only stopping that from happening, and that's Djokovic, and he's simply not a normal tennis player in any way, any more than Federer was just a few years back, or Nadal as recently as earlier this year.
I don't think Z has a prayer tomorrow, and I don't see anyone stopping Djokovic at least through the AO in 2019. I'm not particularly happy about this, but at least it's fun watching history be made.
duaneeo
Legend
The point is that if two players who faced each other in a RR match make the final, it's a new ballgame. I didn't expect Nole to win just 7 games (as he did in the RR) in the 2015 final, and don't expect Zverev to win just 5 games in today's final. Again, he's a strong finalist. And, having already faced Nole might benefit.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
You are probably right there. Tennis history certainly supports this idea. My point is that it only takes one outlier to make a mockery of norms. The only thing that seems logical to me from the past is that at some point each extra inch adds an advantage to the serve but takes away just about an equal advantage - or more - from the return. But I think what has changed over the last 10 years or more is that the height at which tall players can grind has gone up. That may be linked 100% to poly, slower surfaces and higher bounce.
D
Deleted member 369227
Guest
“Whatever comes out of these gates, we've got a better chance of survival if we work together. Do you understand? If we stay together we survive!”
Zebrev
Hall of Fame
Precisely, he already beat Cilic and had a huge head 2 head advantage against Isner. He knew there was a good chance he was already qualified for semis so I don't think we can make many assumptions. He definitely saving the best for last, as we saw against Roger. No matter how bad Roger was playing, it takes guys to vanquish your all-time idol on a stage like this. Zverev is hitting another purple patch it seems, like he did on clay where he was basically unstoppable. This is good news heading to Australia in January where he has never made it past third round. I can see a semi final on the cards there for him, at least.
Zebrev
Hall of Fame
Yes, they always say that when two guys face eachother twice in close succession, it benefits the guy who lost the first match as there is a pressure on the winner to repeat the performance.
mightyjeditribble
Hall of Fame
I think Zverev might put in a good performance and sneak a break and a set against Djokovic. But in the end Novak will come through.
However, if Zverev doesn't bring his best, it will be a straight-sets loss - and could even be a beatdown. (By which I don't mean a 7-5 7-6 score, as some do ...)
However, if Zverev doesn't bring his best, it will be a straight-sets loss - and could even be a beatdown. (By which I don't mean a 7-5 7-6 score, as some do ...)
yokied
Hall of Fame
I have a funny feeling Joe will beat himself. He probably should be applying himself totally for victory here for plenty of reasons, but I think he might drift off a bit and Zverev might sneak this one out with a late break in the third.
What I'm really hoping for is an Ultronian beatdown with Zverev getting 3 games max, in under one hour, but that's unlikely based on Joe's ball bouncing alone.
What I'm really hoping for is an Ultronian beatdown with Zverev getting 3 games max, in under one hour, but that's unlikely based on Joe's ball bouncing alone.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Apart from Cilic unexpectedly taking the final to a 5th set, and Fed winning, what was possibly exciting about that tournament?
V
Vamos Rafa Nadal
Guest
Zverev needs to go for broke and be fearless today. He has to think like a champion: if he gets behind he has to believe he can come back from it. He will need a super high level of concentration. Can he do it? IDK. I will be rooting for him but expecting the worst as usual, because Djokovic does think like a champion already and for Zverev he isn't there yet. Zverev simply has to raise his level and go out there determined to win. It would be great because we need the younger players to start to take over from the big 3 now and this could be a turning point in that direction.
It's odd but I have started to like Zverev and ironically it was his losing streak late this year that changed my mind about him. I am one of those people who tends to root for underdogs - which of course means being disappointed in the outcomes more often - but happier when one of my underdogs winds up unexpectedly winning!
It's odd but I have started to like Zverev and ironically it was his losing streak late this year that changed my mind about him. I am one of those people who tends to root for underdogs - which of course means being disappointed in the outcomes more often - but happier when one of my underdogs winds up unexpectedly winning!
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
Schwartzman vs RAFA, Cilic vs RAFA, Delpo vs Khachanov, Tsonga vs Shapo and Kyrgoat, Kyrgoat vs Dimitrov, McDonald vs Dimitrov, Edmund vs Dimitrov, Berdych, Chung and Sandgren's heroics.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
List of inconsequential matches for the title.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
You said tournament, which had some nuggets.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
OMG, What are we going to do after this match ????????????????? Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. NO tennis til January,,,,,,,,,, out lives empty, hollow shell of boredom ,,, silliness.,........................
Enceladus
Legend
Link to ATP article: https://www.nittoatpfinals.com/en/n...don-finale-2018-preview-djokovic-zverev-nitto
DJOKOVIC, ZVEREV SET CHAMPIONSHIP CLASH IN LONDON
When Roger Federer exited The O2 in 2011, he took with him a record sixth trophy at the Nitto ATP Finals. It was an unprecedented achievement that was as astonishing as it was improbable. Qualifying for the season finale on six occasions is an impressive feat, but to win the title that many times is simply astounding.
Few believed that anyone would challenge Federer's mark in the near future. But only seven years later, Novak Djokovic has arrived on the doorstep of joining the exclusive club. The World No. 1 is one win from hoisting a record-tying sixth piece of silverware on the ATP World Tour's grandest stage.
Standing in Djokovic's way of the historic achievement is Alexander Zverev, whom he defeated 6-4, 6-1 in Wednesday's group stage. The Serbian was on the attack from the first ball, winning a staggering 73 per cent of first serve points and denying both break opportunities earned by the German, en route to a comprehensive 77-minute win.
That match is not an anomaly. Djokovic has served notice to the rest of the Top 10 that he once again stands alone atop the tennis universe. And it's not even close. The Nitto ATP Finals is the best of the best and the Serbian is proving that he is just that much better.
"Novak right now is the best player in the world," said Zverev. "It's very tough to beat him. He's barely lost a match in the last six months. He's playing amazing tennis. You have to play your best game to even have a chance. I hope I'll be able to do that tomorrow."
Not only does Djokovic enter the final having not dropped serve all week, but he is bidding to become the first player to lift the Nitto ATP Finals trophy without being broken since ATP match facts began in 1991. Just six weeks ago, he achieved the feat for the first time in his career, when he streaked to the title at the Rolex Shanghai Masters.
Djokovic isn't just dominating his Top 10 brethren at The O2, he's blitzing the competition without pause. He entered the week riding a 10-match win streak against Top 10 opponents and that number has swelled to a whopping 14 in a row.
Nitto ATP Finals Title Leaders
1. Federer - 6
2. Lendl, Sampras & Djokovic - 5
5. Nastase - 4
In addition, Djokovic is vying to become the first player to win the title at the season finale without dropping a set since Ivan Lendl in 1986. And he is bidding to become the oldest winner in tournament history, at 31 years, five months.
While there is plenty at stake for the surging World No. 1 in Sunday's championship clash, Zverev is hoping to crash the party with a breakthrough performance. The German is making the most of his second appearance at The O2. Despite falling in round-robin action to Djokovic, he is playing some of the best tennis of his career to reach the final.
"I'm expecting quite a different matchup for us tomorrow than what it was in the group stage," Djokovic said of Zverev. "That win can definitely serve as kind of maybe a mental advantage a little bit coming into tomorrow's match. But Sascha, even though he's a leader of new generation, still kind of considered a young player, he's an established player. He's shown some great skill on the court the last couple years. He's shown why he deserves to be in the mix of the top players in the world."
On Saturday, Zverev exhibited the poise and maturity of a champion in dismissing Federer in a tight straight-set semi-final affair. He is standing tall on the baseline and blasting through the court with fearless aggression, but arguably the most impressive piece of the German's game has been his delivery. Zverev won more than 75 per cent of first serve points in defeating Marin Cilic, John Isner and Federer.
Youngest Nitto ATP Finals Finalists (since 2000)
Hewitt (2001) - 20 years, 8 months; winner
del Potro (2009) - 21 years, 1 month; runner-up
Djokovic (2008) - 21 years, 5 months; winner
Zverev (2018) - 21 years, 6 months; ?
Hewitt (2002) - 21 years, 8 months; winner
Behind that indomitable serve, he has surged into the biggest final of his young career. But Zverev will need it to show up on Sunday against his opponent's ruthless returning. Denting the elastic wall that is Djokovic is no easy task to, but if the German is to be effective, another strong serving performance is critical.
When Zverev steps onto the court at The O2, he'll be eyeing a slice of history of his own, as the youngest champion at the Nitto ATP Finals since Djokovic himself in 2008 (in Shanghai). At 21 years and six months, he is just one month older than the Serbian was when he reigned for the first time a decade ago.
Zverev, who is the first German finalist since Boris Becker in 1996, is appearing in his sixth title match of the year. Champion at the ATP World Tour 250 event in Munich, 500 event in Washington and Masters 1000 stop in Madrid, he also finished runner-up in Miami and Rome.
With so much on the line, fireworks are sure to fly under the bright lights of The O2. It will be the fourth FedEx ATP Head2Head encounter between Djokovic and Zverev, with both of the Serbian's victories coming in the past two months. In addition to his group stage win earlier this week, he dropped just three games in prevailing at the Rolex Shanghai Masters in October. Meanwhile, Zverev's lone victory came last year in the final of the Internazionali BNL d'Italia in Rome. He will look to draw upon that experience when he squares off against the hottest player on the planet on Sunday.
American Duo To Face French Foes In Doubles Final
In the doubles final, fifth-seeded Americans Mike Bryan and Jack Sock will look to cap their week in London with a slice of revenge against Frenchmen Pierre-Hugues Herbert and Nicolas Mahut. Bryan and Sock, who are making their team debut at the Nitto ATP Finals, finished second to Herbert and Mahut in Group Knowles/Nestor following a 6-2, 6-2 round robin defeat on Friday.
Payback will be on the Americans' minds as they look to complete a stunning 2018 campaign as a tandem. Champions at Wimbledon and the US Open, they are bidding for a 20th match win of the year in Sunday's championship. Individually, Bryan is eyeing a fifth title at the season finale, having prevailed alongside brother Bob Bryan in 2003, 2004, 2009 and 2014.
It marks the third meeting in three weeks between the teams, having also clashed in the quarter-finals of the Rolex Paris Masters. The Americans won that battle in a Match Tie-break.
For Herbert and Mahut, their run to the final has already exceeded their best result at the Nitto ATP Finals. Following three consecutive group stage exits from 2015-17, they are enjoying a breakthrough campaign at The O2 as the eighth seeds. Also the champions at Roland Garros and in Rotterdam, they are bidding for a third title of the year.
DJOKOVIC, ZVEREV SET CHAMPIONSHIP CLASH IN LONDON
When Roger Federer exited The O2 in 2011, he took with him a record sixth trophy at the Nitto ATP Finals. It was an unprecedented achievement that was as astonishing as it was improbable. Qualifying for the season finale on six occasions is an impressive feat, but to win the title that many times is simply astounding.
Few believed that anyone would challenge Federer's mark in the near future. But only seven years later, Novak Djokovic has arrived on the doorstep of joining the exclusive club. The World No. 1 is one win from hoisting a record-tying sixth piece of silverware on the ATP World Tour's grandest stage.
Standing in Djokovic's way of the historic achievement is Alexander Zverev, whom he defeated 6-4, 6-1 in Wednesday's group stage. The Serbian was on the attack from the first ball, winning a staggering 73 per cent of first serve points and denying both break opportunities earned by the German, en route to a comprehensive 77-minute win.
That match is not an anomaly. Djokovic has served notice to the rest of the Top 10 that he once again stands alone atop the tennis universe. And it's not even close. The Nitto ATP Finals is the best of the best and the Serbian is proving that he is just that much better.
"Novak right now is the best player in the world," said Zverev. "It's very tough to beat him. He's barely lost a match in the last six months. He's playing amazing tennis. You have to play your best game to even have a chance. I hope I'll be able to do that tomorrow."
Not only does Djokovic enter the final having not dropped serve all week, but he is bidding to become the first player to lift the Nitto ATP Finals trophy without being broken since ATP match facts began in 1991. Just six weeks ago, he achieved the feat for the first time in his career, when he streaked to the title at the Rolex Shanghai Masters.
Djokovic isn't just dominating his Top 10 brethren at The O2, he's blitzing the competition without pause. He entered the week riding a 10-match win streak against Top 10 opponents and that number has swelled to a whopping 14 in a row.
Nitto ATP Finals Title Leaders
1. Federer - 6
2. Lendl, Sampras & Djokovic - 5
5. Nastase - 4
In addition, Djokovic is vying to become the first player to win the title at the season finale without dropping a set since Ivan Lendl in 1986. And he is bidding to become the oldest winner in tournament history, at 31 years, five months.
While there is plenty at stake for the surging World No. 1 in Sunday's championship clash, Zverev is hoping to crash the party with a breakthrough performance. The German is making the most of his second appearance at The O2. Despite falling in round-robin action to Djokovic, he is playing some of the best tennis of his career to reach the final.
"I'm expecting quite a different matchup for us tomorrow than what it was in the group stage," Djokovic said of Zverev. "That win can definitely serve as kind of maybe a mental advantage a little bit coming into tomorrow's match. But Sascha, even though he's a leader of new generation, still kind of considered a young player, he's an established player. He's shown some great skill on the court the last couple years. He's shown why he deserves to be in the mix of the top players in the world."
On Saturday, Zverev exhibited the poise and maturity of a champion in dismissing Federer in a tight straight-set semi-final affair. He is standing tall on the baseline and blasting through the court with fearless aggression, but arguably the most impressive piece of the German's game has been his delivery. Zverev won more than 75 per cent of first serve points in defeating Marin Cilic, John Isner and Federer.
Youngest Nitto ATP Finals Finalists (since 2000)
Hewitt (2001) - 20 years, 8 months; winner
del Potro (2009) - 21 years, 1 month; runner-up
Djokovic (2008) - 21 years, 5 months; winner
Zverev (2018) - 21 years, 6 months; ?
Hewitt (2002) - 21 years, 8 months; winner
Behind that indomitable serve, he has surged into the biggest final of his young career. But Zverev will need it to show up on Sunday against his opponent's ruthless returning. Denting the elastic wall that is Djokovic is no easy task to, but if the German is to be effective, another strong serving performance is critical.
When Zverev steps onto the court at The O2, he'll be eyeing a slice of history of his own, as the youngest champion at the Nitto ATP Finals since Djokovic himself in 2008 (in Shanghai). At 21 years and six months, he is just one month older than the Serbian was when he reigned for the first time a decade ago.
Zverev, who is the first German finalist since Boris Becker in 1996, is appearing in his sixth title match of the year. Champion at the ATP World Tour 250 event in Munich, 500 event in Washington and Masters 1000 stop in Madrid, he also finished runner-up in Miami and Rome.
With so much on the line, fireworks are sure to fly under the bright lights of The O2. It will be the fourth FedEx ATP Head2Head encounter between Djokovic and Zverev, with both of the Serbian's victories coming in the past two months. In addition to his group stage win earlier this week, he dropped just three games in prevailing at the Rolex Shanghai Masters in October. Meanwhile, Zverev's lone victory came last year in the final of the Internazionali BNL d'Italia in Rome. He will look to draw upon that experience when he squares off against the hottest player on the planet on Sunday.
American Duo To Face French Foes In Doubles Final
In the doubles final, fifth-seeded Americans Mike Bryan and Jack Sock will look to cap their week in London with a slice of revenge against Frenchmen Pierre-Hugues Herbert and Nicolas Mahut. Bryan and Sock, who are making their team debut at the Nitto ATP Finals, finished second to Herbert and Mahut in Group Knowles/Nestor following a 6-2, 6-2 round robin defeat on Friday.
Payback will be on the Americans' minds as they look to complete a stunning 2018 campaign as a tandem. Champions at Wimbledon and the US Open, they are bidding for a 20th match win of the year in Sunday's championship. Individually, Bryan is eyeing a fifth title at the season finale, having prevailed alongside brother Bob Bryan in 2003, 2004, 2009 and 2014.
It marks the third meeting in three weeks between the teams, having also clashed in the quarter-finals of the Rolex Paris Masters. The Americans won that battle in a Match Tie-break.
For Herbert and Mahut, their run to the final has already exceeded their best result at the Nitto ATP Finals. Following three consecutive group stage exits from 2015-17, they are enjoying a breakthrough campaign at The O2 as the eighth seeds. Also the champions at Roland Garros and in Rotterdam, they are bidding for a third title of the year.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Too bad Novak is not 37 year old Fed.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Anything other than a Novak beatdown will surprise me. Zverev's FH is garbage and won't do jack to Novak because of that.
Soul_Evisceration
Hall of Fame
Zverev needs to go for broke and be fearless today. He has to think like a champion: if he gets behind he has to believe he can come back from it. He will need a super high level of concentration. Can he do it? IDK. I will be rooting for him but expecting the worst as usual, because Djokovic does think like a champion already and for Zverev he isn't there yet. Zverev simply has to raise his level and go out there determined to win. It would be great because we need the younger players to start to take over from the big 3 now and this could be a turning point in that direction.
It's odd but I have started to like Zverev and ironically it was his losing streak late this year that changed my mind about him. I am one of those people who tends to root for underdogs - which of course means being disappointed in the outcomes more often - but happier when one of my underdogs winds up unexpectedly winning!
But you do have a problem if the Next Generation starts beating your beloved Rafa right?
