AM75
Hall of Fame
Didn't Kenin won their previous match bageling Muguruza in the first set?
2020 Australian Open - Women's Singles - General Discussion
- Thread starter Enceladus
- Start date
Didn't Kenin won their previous match bageling Muguruza in the first set?
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
^ But Muguruza was not playing anywhere near the level she's on at this AO.
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
Junior 2020 AO finals are streamed NOW
All players are 17 yo, except for Jimenez Katsintseva, a prodigy at 14 (also quite big for her age)
Watch Baszak's beautiful 1HBH
| sportstream dot tv From 19:15 EST | |||
|---|---|---|---|
| H. Mayot (France) (1) | versus | A. Cazaux (France) (5) | Junior Boys' Singles Final |
| W. Baszak (Poland) | versus | V. Jimenez Kasintseva (Andora) (9) | Junior Girls' Singles Final |
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fundrazer
G.O.A.T.
I don't think that match has any relevance to this final considering Garbine's current form + her confidence and the fact that this is a grand slam final. Kenin should have some nerves, but Garbine has been here before.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
Or so low that not one person is dominant or can keep their level up
AM75
Hall of Fame
it's the opposite. Look at the ATP and you clearly can see how damaging it is when the sport is dominated by 3 players for years.
James P
G.O.A.T.
14, wow! That would be a bit of a shocker if she won.
Junior 2020 AO finals are streamed NOW
All players are 17 yo, except for Jimenez Katsintseva, a prodigy at 14 (also quite big for her age)
Watch Baszak's beautiful 1HBH
sportstream dot tv
From 19:15 ESTH. Mayot (France) (1) versus A. Cazaux (France) (5)
Junior Boys' Singles Final W. Baszak (Poland) versus V. Jimenez Kasintseva (Andora) (9) Junior Girls' Singles Final
Hey Marius I know you pay attention to this stuff a lot. How many of these junior boys and girls go on to have decent pro career? Is it a pretty high percent?
Junior 2020 AO finals are streamed NOW
All players are 17 yo, except for Jimenez Katsintseva, a prodigy at 14 (also quite big for her age)
Watch Baszak's beautiful 1HBH
sportstream dot tv
From 19:15 ESTH. Mayot (France) (1) versus A. Cazaux (France) (5)
Junior Boys' Singles Final W. Baszak (Poland) versus V. Jimenez Kasintseva (Andora) (9) Junior Girls' Singles Final
Duncan Donuts
Professional
Normally, I set my alarm for 2:30 AM local time so I can watch the Women’s Final live from the beginning. I have been doing this since 2017. I find myself not giving a crap about the Final this year. I really should be in bed now.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@THUNDERVOLLEY
Don't believe that is true. Darren was known more as a doubles player in his own career. He know the value of the net game. Before he had taken his "one year sabbatical", Simona had mentioned, more than once, that Darren wanted her to come into the net more.
She indicated that she had worked on it. She has come in, somewhat more, against lesser or moderate hitters. But against the biggest hitters, not so much. She only came to the net 4 times when she rolled over Serena on the grass at W last year. Shows that she can get the aggressive baseliner game to work at times against the top players.
Don't believe that is true. Darren was known more as a doubles player in his own career. He know the value of the net game. Before he had taken his "one year sabbatical", Simona had mentioned, more than once, that Darren wanted her to come into the net more.
She indicated that she had worked on it. She has come in, somewhat more, against lesser or moderate hitters. But against the biggest hitters, not so much. She only came to the net 4 times when she rolled over Serena on the grass at W last year. Shows that she can get the aggressive baseliner game to work at times against the top players.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
I think it's Simona's reluctance to come to the net, very often, against the big hitters. Don't think we can put that on Darren.
Not so sure that Garbine is really the more skilled player. Bigger server. (Somewhat) bigger hitter. Higher-risk style of play = goes for more winners but commits many more UEs.
Simona is 2 years older but has considerably more WTA singles titles. 19 compared to 7 for Garbine. Sure, Simona started younger (15 or 16, I think). But wasnt winning all that much in her teens. Even so, she has won ~70% of all her singles matches. (That % is much, much higher if you look at her record since 2014). Contrast that Garbine's W-L singles record = 66.5%
Mugu has played more and fared better in doubles than Halep. 10 WTA titles to 1 for Simona. Undoubtedly one reason we see Garbine coming to the net so much in singles compared to Simona and other players.
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SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
...
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
@PDJ @skyline
Had given this a Like but after further consideration, I'm thinking this is a relatively minor contribution. Sure there were a few times during the match when I thinking "move in Simona" but she didn't.
It's just not her MO to move in very often against bigger hitters like Garbine or Serena. Even against lesser hitters, she'll move in a bit more but still doesnt move in as often as expected. But she will still make it work most of the time.
When she took down Serena, convincingly, last year at the W final, Simona only went to the net 4 times in those 2 sets. Serena was tight/nervous to be sure. And Simona was able to keep the pressure on her, not letting her into the match, primarily from the backcourt.
Garbine OTOH is a high-risk player who is more of an all-courter. She feels very comfortable at the net. In fact, she has more WTA doubles titles (10) than singles titles (7). So its really no surprise that she went into the net often and was highly successful at it.
Of the 177 pts played, the delta was a mere 3 points. If these 2 played again with the very same tactics/approach, the outcome could ver easily go the other way. Even with similar net stats it would come down to crucial points.
Note that when Roger plays Novak, he goes to the net a lot more often than his adversary. And he is more successful at the net than Novak. This is often the case when Roger loses a close match to Novak (like W last year).
Sure, Novak does go to the net more often than Simona. But it still goes to show that one can dictate quite a bit from the backcourt and not so much at the net.
Had given this a Like but after further consideration, I'm thinking this is a relatively minor contribution. Sure there were a few times during the match when I thinking "move in Simona" but she didn't.
It's just not her MO to move in very often against bigger hitters like Garbine or Serena. Even against lesser hitters, she'll move in a bit more but still doesnt move in as often as expected. But she will still make it work most of the time.
When she took down Serena, convincingly, last year at the W final, Simona only went to the net 4 times in those 2 sets. Serena was tight/nervous to be sure. And Simona was able to keep the pressure on her, not letting her into the match, primarily from the backcourt.
Garbine OTOH is a high-risk player who is more of an all-courter. She feels very comfortable at the net. In fact, she has more WTA doubles titles (10) than singles titles (7). So its really no surprise that she went into the net often and was highly successful at it.
Of the 177 pts played, the delta was a mere 3 points. If these 2 played again with the very same tactics/approach, the outcome could ver easily go the other way. Even with similar net stats it would come down to crucial points.
Note that when Roger plays Novak, he goes to the net a lot more often than his adversary. And he is more successful at the net than Novak. This is often the case when Roger loses a close match to Novak (like W last year).
Sure, Novak does go to the net more often than Simona. But it still goes to show that one can dictate quite a bit from the backcourt and not so much at the net.
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PDJ
G.O.A.T.
I've often written that Halep has lost some matches that she could potentially have won by coming in when she's opened the court up - against Kerber at Wimbledon a few years back springs to mind.
I 'liked ' the comment because I appreciate posts about stats, and lists.
helixx
Hall of Fame
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...nin-vs-garbine-muguruza.662433/#post-14079649 come to match thread guys
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Here's your wakeup call for the match. If you dont have enuff crap to give or to spare, we can loan you some.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
So, we have yet another breakthrough at the majors. Weak era my ass. That's as idiotic as a certain member claiming "Serena wins everything" and "She's given easy draws. Just hand her the trophy." And on that note, since 2010, the majors winners not named Serena are:
Schiavone - FO - 2010
Clijsters - USO 2010 & AO 2011
Li Na - FO 2011 & AO 2014
Kvitova - Wimbledon 2011 & 2014
Stosur - USO 2011
Sharapova - FO 2012 & FO 2014
Azarenka - AO 2012 & 2013
Bartoli - Wimbledon 2013
Pennetta - USO 2015
Kerber - AO 2016, USO 2016 & Wimbledon 2018
Muguruza - FO 2016 & Wimbledon 2017
Ostapenko - FO 2017
Stephens - USO 2017
Wozniacki - AO 2018
Halep - FO 2018
Osaka: USO 2018 & Osaka: AO 2019
Barty: FO 2019
Andreescu: USO 2019
...and now...
Kenin: AO 2020
There's a wealth of talent fighting for and winning majors, and is not like the ATP, where three granddaddies have swatted no-talent flies for the majority of two generations.
About the final: Muguruza somehow lost her form after that 1st set, and was a bit reckless here and there, which was enough of an opportunity for Kenin to succeed. However, Muguruza made a forceful comeback at this AO, and if she holds to that kind of game, I have no doubt she will add more to her majors shelf.
Schiavone - FO - 2010
Clijsters - USO 2010 & AO 2011
Li Na - FO 2011 & AO 2014
Kvitova - Wimbledon 2011 & 2014
Stosur - USO 2011
Sharapova - FO 2012 & FO 2014
Azarenka - AO 2012 & 2013
Bartoli - Wimbledon 2013
Pennetta - USO 2015
Kerber - AO 2016, USO 2016 & Wimbledon 2018
Muguruza - FO 2016 & Wimbledon 2017
Ostapenko - FO 2017
Stephens - USO 2017
Wozniacki - AO 2018
Halep - FO 2018
Osaka: USO 2018 & Osaka: AO 2019
Barty: FO 2019
Andreescu: USO 2019
...and now...
Kenin: AO 2020
There's a wealth of talent fighting for and winning majors, and is not like the ATP, where three granddaddies have swatted no-talent flies for the majority of two generations.
About the final: Muguruza somehow lost her form after that 1st set, and was a bit reckless here and there, which was enough of an opportunity for Kenin to succeed. However, Muguruza made a forceful comeback at this AO, and if she holds to that kind of game, I have no doubt she will add more to her majors shelf.
Marius_Hancu
Talk Tennis Guru
Kenin was the best problem-solver in this tournament, with hands-eye coordination good enough to seriously disturb the other women when deciding to play the ball on the rise.
I'd say she's from the Agassi school.
Congratulations.
P.S. In the last two sets, Muguruza's vision was not up to par in terms of early detection of the incoming ball direction and she lacked much more energetic split-stepping leading to aggressive footwork. That was enough.
I'd say she's from the Agassi school.
Congratulations.
P.S. In the last two sets, Muguruza's vision was not up to par in terms of early detection of the incoming ball direction and she lacked much more energetic split-stepping leading to aggressive footwork. That was enough.
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gogo
Legend
PDJ
G.O.A.T.
Finally a decent highlights reel.
Muguruza fought hard, but maybe the days of players that solely rely on power are mercifully over. Her ball striking is admirable but her movement was seriously exposed by a player who was considerably more versatile with the ball.
Edit. Watching it again, Kenin has a lot more options on her backhand than Muguruza. She uses this to great effect to expose Muguruza's movement.
Muguruza fought hard, but maybe the days of players that solely rely on power are mercifully over. Her ball striking is admirable but her movement was seriously exposed by a player who was considerably more versatile with the ball.
Edit. Watching it again, Kenin has a lot more options on her backhand than Muguruza. She uses this to great effect to expose Muguruza's movement.
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